Lisa Virtue [00:00:02]:

Angela, thank you so much for taking the time to come and chat with me today about being a human and leading other humans. And why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself for the audience?

Angela Tait [00:00:13]:

Sure. I'm Angela Tate. I'm a chief talent strategist, CEO and founder of Tate Consulting, which empowers leaders to be in their zone of genius with hiring, training, and coaching. I also have a book that I recently launched, the Human Capital Playbook, which is all about the hiring, inspiring, and retaining of talent. And then I'm an investor of arc, which is a headband supporting, you know, women feeling confident in their skin. And then I have a podcast for moms that are juggling motherhood and work and business.

Lisa Virtue [00:00:53]:

I love it. We can talk about all the things today, like leading other humans at work, but also at home. Yes. Raising the next generation of good people. Yeah. So much to carry, right? That weight to carry. And now we've got this AI element that's coming into teams and recruiting. I'm sure you're seeing it all over the place.

Lisa Virtue [00:01:15]:

So what kind of challenges are you seeing right now that leaders are facing in this current climate?

Angela Tait [00:01:21]:

Well, talking about hiring and AI, I talked to a leader, a business owner, the other day, and she was mentioning how her daughter is going through the interview process in New York. And AI is, like, going through that first round and it's getting on a video with AI and how awkward it feels and how she doesn't like it, and so understanding that AI is great with automation and. And maybe behind the scenes with taking out, you know, certain resumes that don't fit for this specific role. But I think getting AI to be people facing feels ingenuine, and people are reevaluating. Right. The company, the role, when that type of stuff happens, because, like you mentioned, human to human connection is so powerful. And when you have a robot that's talking to you, it doesn't feel like the company actually cares. And people are big on that.

Angela Tait [00:02:22]:

They want to feel valued. They want to come in knowing that their leader, their employer, is investing in them, and therefore they are investing in the company with their time and energy. And so that's a huge piece that I've seen shift in the last year with AI on the scene is not just taking a backseat and maybe going through some of the resumes, but now they're, like, facing that other individual in an interview.

Lisa Virtue [00:02:51]:

Yes, it's. It could be so awkward. Can't, you know, like, even just having conversations, I have a hard enough time talking to the Camera by myself. Like when I record courses or you know, a podcast episode, just looking at the camera, I'm like, ugh. I feel like there's. It's soulless. And then when you're talking to a robot that's mimicking it. Yeah.

Lisa Virtue [00:03:13]:

There's something disingenuine like you're saying that comes through.

Angela Tait [00:03:17]:

Yeah. And I mean, there has been great strides in AI. I was watching something this morning on how you bring AI into your business for ads. Right. And you have these people that they look like you, they sound like you, but it's not really you. And, and it looked good. It looked good as the ad was being played. But I think there's still certain things that have not been perfected that someone that smart can tell the difference between a real person and a robot or AI.

Lisa Virtue [00:03:50]:

Yeah. So speaking to like an HR team, I can imagine that it's really interesting with these, like this pendulum is swinging. Right. Okay. AI comes on the scene and now everyone's thrown the spaghetti everywhere on the wall. There's products for every component. It feels like including coaching too, and consulting and throw all the data in there and have ChatGPT tell you what to do. And you know, there's an element of.

Lisa Virtue [00:04:14]:

Yes. And there's, there's also a time and place like us as humans need to be involved. So on the HR side, I can imagine, and I, you know, have family members and colleagues too that work within HR teams that it can be a struggle to decide where you're getting that pressure from above or from your goals where you need to bring in those tools. And then where does the human element feel like it's the most valuable and most effective? Because like as an employee going to an HR team and talking to a robot about your grievances. Right. I imagine is not the best use of a tool like that. What is your experience with seeing teams go through these things?

Angela Tait [00:05:02]:

Yeah, so much. I'm in an HR group called shrm. Right. Society of Human Resources Management. And there's been a lot of layoffs in HR because AI. And one of the things I was talking about with another HR leader is the employee relations piece. And that plays a bigger factor than some business owners. Leaders that are not in HR realize even being in office.

Angela Tait [00:05:27]:

And when I was internal with hr, the amount of times like someone just kind of walks by and they're like, oh, you're in the office and they want to talk to you. And there's. It's really that check in moment that can make or break that person from staying working out a problem. A leader might have a difficult team member and they're like, okay, there's someone, a sounding board I can talk to about this instead of just letting it weigh on them and get to the point where now they just want to fire, they're so frustrated. Or same with the employee. Like there's been continual moments that make them quit. So it really is that those, those times that you are not accounting for. And the HR daily routine that makes a huge impact on retention.

Angela Tait [00:06:18]:

And retention goes back to the bottom line. Right. Of if you don't have high turnover and you're saving the cost on hiring and training and having people walk out the door with all of this knowledge about the company that is sometimes crucial because you don't have all of those SOPs in place. And these are just people that have been there since the beginning. I mean, there's so much that I cannot do yet when it comes to that human connection, those check ins again, the employee relations that plays a big factor and keeping people there.

Lisa Virtue [00:06:57]:

Yeah. So I know you've stood up HR teams from scratch too. Right. Where like businesses that are finally running at a place where they need an HR team. So we all know the value of hr. Where do you see the founders and maybe board of trustees, people that are in decision making that aren't necessarily face to face with employees. Where do you see them understanding the value of that partnership with hr?

Angela Tait [00:07:29]:

Where do I see them? How do you help them understand?

Lisa Virtue [00:07:34]:

Or that's a great question too. Yeah. Where do you see that they see the value? Because for me, my immediate thought is, oh, it's risk management. That's typically where it comes from. Oh, we need to mitigate this risk. So we need an HR team. So of course there's value with that. But how do you help them understand like these crucial items? Right.

Lisa Virtue [00:07:59]:

So in recruitment they need face to face. Like what kinds of things have you worked with with those decision makers to see the value?

Angela Tait [00:08:06]:

Yeah. And I want to bring up a quick story that I mentioned in my book as well. And it sticks with me. So when I first got hired into this company I was working for, they didn't have HR. There was, there was a team of 10. And the CEO was like, why do we need HR? He said that to the COO and general counsel and he's like, just trust me, we do. And I remember coming in and again, there was probably around 10 employees. This is January 2020.

Angela Tait [00:08:36]:

And you imagine if they didn't have HR in house when Covid broke out in March. We also hired over 100 people that year because it was a company that focused on real estate investment, property management, construction. So there was different lines of the business and. And they were growing rapidly because during COVID right, like, the real estate market just took off. So one, you have like these employees that are on site too, like in construction and property management. So I was navigating that with the leaders and the employees that didn't feel safe or trying to figure out where was the. The balance. You know, just all the changes that happened during that time.

Angela Tait [00:09:28]:

Well, that CEO that said, why do we need HR, you know, at 10 employees? Well, we had reached maybe at the end of that year. There was a lot of turnover with construction and different things. But I think, you know, once we got to between that 50 and 100 mark, he's like, oh, yeah, now I understand why we need more. Because not only in that year was there like the COVID situation and the hiring, which HR plays a factor in, but it was also creating an employee handbook that they had not had performance management to keep track of, like, these different metrics and make sure people were staying on target. There were things that came up. So helping support the leaders and firing them are documenting situation where it goes back to your risk management. Because then we did have, you know, people coming back that felt like they were laid off for the wrong reasons. And so luckily all the documentation was there.

Angela Tait [00:10:22]:

So there is that risk factor. But it was also seeing people that flourished and grew and those, like, three years that I was there, people we brought in that as the company continued to scale, they kept moving up the ladder because we had good training and supporting, like, okay, this is what metrics look like, but this is how you move to the next level. Or, you know, there's so much that went on behind the scenes with, like, employee relations too. There was acquisitions of other companies coming in that HR played a factor in with getting everyone on board for health insurance and, you know, integration of the different cultures from one company to the other and making sure there was strong retention and getting that alignment in place. And so it's like these factors. Sometimes you hear HR and immediately you think of, yeah, compliance and risk. But it is like that bigger picture that also plays a factor of career development. Because the number one, I shouldn't say the number one reason, but a big reason people leave companies is because they don't feel like they're challenged.

Angela Tait [00:11:30]:

And a lot of times it's just like, people are not supporting in their growth and so they feel stagnant, they feel complacent. And if you have a top performer, they want to continue growing and learning and feeling supported to get to the next level, not only financially, but also in title bumps and being more strategic. Right. And having leadership positions where they get to grow and support others in the organization. And so looking at all those different factors is such a key part of the business to again, helping support and retain those people coming on board.

Lisa Virtue [00:12:07]:

Yeah, I hear this all the time. When people are looking to make a change in an organization, of course it can be their leader. But the professional growth, right, where it's like, oh, I like who I work with or who I work for, but I'm just stuck. I'm like stagnant and I want to do more. I have aspiration to learn and grow. And like you said, there's sometimes there's benefit to that. But for what I see, a lot of it just boils down to like, what is intrinsic? They just get bored.

Angela Tait [00:12:36]:

Right.

Lisa Virtue [00:12:37]:

Quite frankly. And then they feel like, where am I going with my life? I'm not learning anything new. Yeah. So you've already mentioned so many great ways leaders can partner with HR founders when they're thinking, like, at what point should I bring HR in? Of course we all would love to say do it right away, but not realistic, even financially sometimes. So assuming like things are kind of running well and leaders are in their seats and HR is established, what are some of the things you've seen that really effective, good leaders do differently?

Angela Tait [00:13:16]:

One is check ins. I think those are huge with individuals on your team. But then also group meetings because then it helps get alignment of what is the goal this week? How can I support you? And so if people are feeling stuck, they're not. Sometimes people don't feel comfortable or they feel like the, the leader is too busy. So by creating that safe space that someone can check in and hear what's going on and how they can help this person support it to continue moving forward, whether it's in their career or with a project, or maybe they're struggling with someone else on the team, they're able to check in and get that feedback. And even maybe it's how they're leading. Right. Their team.

Angela Tait [00:14:01]:

And if they've created that safe space and that rapport, then that person, that individual might feel comfortable enough to open up and say, hey, you know, you said something to me that didn't feel good last week. And I want to talk through this because I want to be on the same page or you know, all of those things help build trust and respect for the leader and for the employee to again feel that safety, inclusivity, that sense of belonging. A lot of people, they also leave because they don't feel like they belong on that team or in that company. Right. They feel like an outsider. No one understands me. And so by having those check in and those group meetings, it's continuing to build that trust and relationship between others so people feel tied in. I one of my first careers, I stayed for four years.

Angela Tait [00:14:52]:

Like I did not necessarily love the job. It definitely didn't challenge me. I mean I stayed for other reasons. But one of the big piece was the people that were hired in that company. I like, I love the people I worked with. And that is what makes people stay longer is not only a good leader because people do leave leaders versus companies, but also the people that you're surrounded with every day. It's your second family. You spend a lot of time at work.

Angela Tait [00:15:19]:

And so if you have good relationships, people will stay a lot longer in a company. And again, I think it goes back to the bottom line. If, if you have people staying longer and continuing to grow and invest in the company because you're investing in them, then your company is going to continue to flourish.

Lisa Virtue [00:15:37]:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Angela Tait [00:15:39]:

So, so we were talking about different things for leaders to do. So check in is probably one of the biggest things that I always tell leaders to do and then, and creating that safe space and, and whatnot. And then another thing that leaders can do is really setting up the tone on the hire. Like I feel like a lot of people don't recognize how important it is to set that candidate experience and, and the person you're bringing in that's going to be a part of a team. Setting the tone in the beginning and to like onboarding that first week. People are usually deciding like even sometimes within the first few days if they're going to stay long term at a company. And so that like hiring boarding piece is vital to like help set someone up for success like with expectations of the role. And so having metrics in place, like people always are going back and forth, right? Like remote workers versus hybrid in office.

Angela Tait [00:16:36]:

And I always tell people it shouldn't matter if they're working eight hours or four hours. If they like have strong metrics and they're meeting their goals, then it shouldn't matter if they're more efficient in getting their work done in four hours. That should be okay versus having to draw something out for eight hours. The goals are clear. And they're hitting all those numbers. They shouldn't be penalized.

Lisa Virtue [00:17:01]:

Yeah, I'm right there with you. For any salaried employee listening, they are going to. This resonates so much. It's like, I'm doing the work that you're paying me to do. Why are you making me sit at a desk? Or why are you making me just be right? I can go do other things. Yeah. And then there's that balance, too, of like the moving target. Right.

Lisa Virtue [00:17:21]:

So we see that too, where it's like, well, great, let's make your goals even harder because you have.

Angela Tait [00:17:25]:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then it's like you're getting paid the same as Sally, who's next to you, but she's doing her work in eight hours. You're getting it done before. And so now you're penalized because you have to do actually double the work.

Lisa Virtue [00:17:36]:

Right.

Angela Tait [00:17:37]:

Because you're more efficient with your time. And so you're more resourceful or, you know, you're smarter at certain things. So. So it's looking at that too. And they. I've heard a lot, right, from high performers, the weakest person on your team. Sometimes that high performer will sink down to a lower performance because you're like, wait, I'm getting paid the same as this person? They're doing half the work. And so looking at that too, is making sure you keep your A players happy and rewarded and continuing to challenge them.

Lisa Virtue [00:18:12]:

Yeah. I love everything that you suggested because it, you know, what you're recommending is be present, be available. And I've worked with a lot of leadership coaches over my time too, and being a leader myself, that the matrix of high performance, when you identify who those high performers are and high potential, that's typically where people neglect. Because they're like, oh, they're good. Oh, you're good.

Angela Tait [00:18:38]:

Right.

Lisa Virtue [00:18:38]:

It's like the child. We hear the stories. It's like, oh, nobody paid attention to me because I was getting A's. And so my sibling over here got more attention because they needed more support. And so remembering, like, they're. They're going to be at risk too, if you don't pay attention to them and be available for them. Don't just say, oh, everything's good. I won't meet with you.

Lisa Virtue [00:18:58]:

That's actually when you should be proactive, right?

Angela Tait [00:19:02]:

Yes, absolutely. Great.

Lisa Virtue [00:19:04]:

So being visible, being available, not. I also see a lot of leaders just cancel those one on ones because maybe. Agenda item, right?

Angela Tait [00:19:13]:

Yes, yes. They're like, oh, we don't really have anything to talk about. I'm like, you all. There's always, always. And you creating that safe space. And like, not necessarily having an agenda. Something else pops up. Like, I.

Angela Tait [00:19:26]:

And it is horrible when people cancel meetings because then the message that you're telling that person is, you're not important.

Lisa Virtue [00:19:33]:

Yeah.

Angela Tait [00:19:34]:

And I try to emphasize that to leaders. Like, if you have to cancel it, cancel it. But make sure you've rescheduled it for that same week because that is the message you're continuing to tell when. And I talk to people like that, oh, they're always canceling our meeting. So then that means that I'm like, oh, other things are taking priority over me. And there's these underlying messages, unconscious things that are coming about that are then creating a narrative for this individual that could, you know, potentially have them leave.

Lisa Virtue [00:20:05]:

Yeah. And we know leaders are busy and they've got so much going on. So it's taking that extra beat and saying, oh, I need to signal how important this person is. It's not about, I'm going to give you your time back. Right. Oh, hey, we'll save you time. You don't have to do this meeting now. It's like you have no idea what's on their mind or heart and what they want to share with you.

Lisa Virtue [00:20:25]:

And most people just go, okay, yeah, they don't fight for it. Right. Like, no, we really need to meet. Most subordinates don't do that.

Angela Tait [00:20:33]:

Yeah, exactly. And it's so impactful to keep those meetings, show how they're a priority. If you have to cancel, reschedule right away. Emphasize the importance of that meeting and how valuable it is. Because at the end of the day, everyone's busy. Right. And it's like you have to make time for the things that are important and a priority. And people on your team need to be a priority or they'll find someone else who values their time and energy.

Lisa Virtue [00:21:03]:

Yeah. And now as we're talking about all these AI tools and everything, it feels like that craving for that human connection is even more important. And like, if you're having your team go and practice working with chat, GBT or whatever the tool is that you're employing, and then you cancel your human meetings. Now all of a sudden they start to get like, even a little emotionally reliant, even if they don't want to. All these robots and versus you as their leader and so you can keep a pulse, check and understand what's going on. Yeah. So important.

Angela Tait [00:21:36]:

Yeah. And I feel like even sometimes when the business Is like running smoothly or you're like, oh, we don't really have anything to check in. I mean that's even a time where getting to know someone on a personal level, right? Like even though it seems like things might be going well, maybe their dog just died, maybe they're having a challenge at home and so allowing again that space that doesn't have an agenda and so you can create that space and maybe the meeting ends early, but maybe it doesn't, maybe it runs over because then you're having like this deeper connection and building that relationship up. So it's not just surface level.

Lisa Virtue [00:22:10]:

Yeah, for sure. Switching gears slightly. I'm curious. So thinking about the leader themselves, this is how they can show up for their team. There's this self awareness piece I know you're really passionate about too, right? Where leadership best practices, a lot of times they, they focus on that, but then they focus on how to have a strategic conversation or performance coaching conversation, which are all so important. But when it comes to like that self awareness piece and understanding yourself as a leader, what pieces do you see that leaders should really spend time on with themselves?

Angela Tait [00:22:47]:

I mean, I was just mentioning this to someone this morning. A Johari window can be beneficial, right? Sometimes you know certain things about yourself and then there's things that others know about you that you know about yourself. And then the other quadrant is like things that you don't know about yourself but other people know about you. And then there's like the stuff that you don't know yet and other people don't know. And so there's like those blind spots and so getting feedback from others, 360 degree feedback. I recently did this with a company with two leaders and it was helpful for them to understand like how other colleagues saw them, how their direct reports saw them, people above them and getting that insight to be able to show up better as a leader and work on those opportunities of improvement. Understanding the strengths, how you can lean into those is something that's very valuable with, with self awareness. And there's other ways that you could do self awareness, right? You can do assessments like Enneagram or Myers Briggs Disc and then read those and understand how those interact with other people on your team that might be a different assessment or type.

Angela Tait [00:24:07]:

And learning you know how to work with those other types of people, reflecting when something goes wrong, you make a mistake. Like thinking back on what was your piece in it, how could you have shown up differently? So journaling assessments, evaluations, reading feedback are all big ways to have More awareness on your leadership style, on you as an individual.

Lisa Virtue [00:24:34]:

Wonderful. So I have to ask because I'm really curious what your response is going to be on this. Out of all the personality assessments and team assessments out there, do you have any favorite.

Angela Tait [00:24:45]:

You know, I used to be a big fan and I still am actually of Myers Briggs. I. And it's just because I understood it a lot. I have read this book. Please understand me too. Have you heard. Heard of that book?

Lisa Virtue [00:24:59]:

No. I'm going to have to check that out.

Angela Tait [00:25:01]:

Yeah. By David Kiersey. And. And it's great. I'm an enfp. And you know, it takes you through the different personality types. It talks about who you are as a par or at work as a leader, how you interact with the other types of personalities in the world. And so I am a big fan of that.

Angela Tait [00:25:21]:

Recently I've been getting more into Enneagram and so I'm reading a book about that right now. So I'm diving deeper. So I think it's those two pieces. It just seems like there's so much there to uncover. The road back to you is the book I'm reading that dives deeper into the Enneagram. And so just those seem to be really powerful ones. I know there's a big push on disc and PI predictive index at work and in corporate situations, but I. I lean to the other two more consistently.

Lisa Virtue [00:25:57]:

I love it. I'm also an enfp.

Angela Tait [00:25:59]:

Oh, you are? Well, that's why so.

Lisa Virtue [00:26:01]:

Well, yeah, I know. That's why we can relate. I was an enfj and then after I had my daughter, we. Our team did that. I was with. Did another assessment and I. My J turn a P. Isn't that fascinating?

Angela Tait [00:26:13]:

That is interesting. So you might have been on the cusp. I feel like that happens a lot when maybe it's like you're really close and so like different times of life maybe push you to one side versus the other.

Lisa Virtue [00:26:25]:

Yeah. And different ways you have to interact in your world based on situation. In that case, becoming a mom. Yeah.

Angela Tait [00:26:32]:

Yes. And what about. Do you know your anagram?

Lisa Virtue [00:26:36]:

I do not. No. I feel like I did it years ago, but I didn't keep that record. Yeah.

Angela Tait [00:26:41]:

I'll have to.

Lisa Virtue [00:26:42]:

Yeah.

Angela Tait [00:26:43]:

Yeah. I. I'd be curious what you are. You. You probably are. I mean, I'm assuming. Right. They're probably similar.

Angela Tait [00:26:49]:

If you're an nfp, maybe you're a seven. That's what I am on Instagram is seven. I wonder if you're the same because

Lisa Virtue [00:26:54]:

Well, I saw your post about being a 7 on LinkedIn and I was reading what you. The image you posted of the text, and I was like, oh, I can relate to a lot of this, so I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah, that's great. I love assessments. Just to understand yourself more. Right. And then take what you agree with and then be able to explain to others. Right.

Lisa Virtue [00:27:16]:

As well. Like, leaders showing up and being able to express themselves authentically really means they need to understand who they are and what the goals are and that you're not trying to contrive anything or show up in a way that is, I guess, lack of a better word, inauthentic. So your team can sniff it out, can't they?

Angela Tait [00:27:39]:

Well, and I think it really gives you communication and words around certain stuff and can be very validating. I was taking those pictures, actually, and I was like, showing my husband, like, look, this is about me. Like, learn about me. Because recently, and this is why it was. It was just really coming true for me. I've been, like, planning a lot of adventures and I'm like, oh, let's travel here, let's do this. And in this book, it was talking about how. And I wasn't really aware of this, but it was like, sevens, they sometimes avoid pain by, like, planning their next, like, adventure.

Angela Tait [00:28:15]:

Like, something to look forward to, experience. And I was like, oh, my gosh, what am I avoiding? And it kind of helped me step back and, like, reflect. Like, oh, I didn't even realize I was doing this.

Lisa Virtue [00:28:27]:

Right.

Angela Tait [00:28:27]:

Because this is just a natural habit that I guess sevens, like, go with. And so it was helpful for me to also give that context to him. Like, he just thinks, you know, maybe I'm avoiding stuff or, like, you're just wanting to spend more money or this. Like, you know, he's putting his own narrative because his personality type is different. And so to understand it, then I was able to verbalize to him or, like, show him some pictures and have a conversation that was really impactful for him. Not like thinking, I'm trying to spend our money or not focusing on things that might be a priority right now. It was just like, unconsciously trying to avoid some painful things that might be. Be happening in the background.

Angela Tait [00:29:08]:

And so I think that's how being a leader and explaining to your team, like, certain things that come up, it gives that understanding to your team and to yourself. Sometimes when you're not aware to move the needle forward or have those conversations that can be difficult when you don't have the words behind them or you don't understand it as well.

Lisa Virtue [00:29:28]:

Yeah, I love that. Giving you the words. And then also to add to that with your teams, also not stereotyping or bucketing people into that. Right. I've seen teams do a bad job of it, too, where they're like, oh, that's because you're a blah, blah, blah. It's like, oh, let's. Let's not use this as. It's like weaponizing it.

Angela Tait [00:29:46]:

Yes. Yeah.

Lisa Virtue [00:29:49]:

People will change, ebb and flow. But for you to use it for yourself and how you show up and how you can share with others and know when you're out of alignment. Right. Like, if so for me, I can relate to that, too. The planning of the adventures and travel is so important, and I want my daughter to be exposed to all of it. So I'm in the thick of that right now for this year for us. And with that said, it's also like the showing up and going, okay, because I need an adventure. When I don't have that, I can also show up in a way that.

Lisa Virtue [00:30:23]:

With some angst. Yes. So I need to balance, like, that hopefulness with the contentment.

Angela Tait [00:30:33]:

Yeah.

Lisa Virtue [00:30:33]:

So interesting. I use it with my husband, too. Every time I do a For Sale, he says. I'm like, if I. If it. Especially if it's free. I'm like, okay, I want you to do this one, too. And what do you think is correct for me and your observation, you know that outsider feedback?

Angela Tait [00:30:47]:

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I. Yeah. I'm like, do you feel like this is true? And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, right.

Lisa Virtue [00:30:56]:

I love it. Awesome.

Angela Tait [00:30:58]:

What is your husband do you know with the Meyer Briggs?

Lisa Virtue [00:31:02]:

He is an I. O. Is it infp maybe? I think that's what I want. Yeah. This was quite a few years ago. That's a good question. I need to look back. I have a couple other assessments that we've done.

Lisa Virtue [00:31:17]:

So, like, the insights colors.

Angela Tait [00:31:20]:

Oh, yeah.

Lisa Virtue [00:31:20]:

The blue, red, yellow, green. He's a blue and I'm a red and yellow. And so we show up very opposite in a lot of ways that we approach things and we use that as language quite often. He's like, oh, yeah, I think I'm doing that because I'm that blue. Right. It was a blue that I was. You know, sometimes he'll speak to it in that way. He's like, that's definitely how I'm approaching this.

Angela Tait [00:31:42]:

Yeah. I mean, it's. It's so. It's such a great framework to have these Tools that you can have as. I don't want to say leverage, but, like, you just. You're able to approach a person or a situation a lot more delicately and in kind of a fun, playful way, too, which I feel like sometimes it's nice to have at work, because sometimes things can be so serious, which there's a time and a place, but, like, having that playful spirit and getting to know different people's personalities, I think that also makes someone feel more understood. And when you're on a team and you're working together and you're just like, why? I was just talking to an HR leader this morning, and she was like, one leader is like, you know, she's like this on the PI index, and the other one's, like, on the opposite side. So she's like, we're constantly talking past each other.

Angela Tait [00:32:33]:

And I'm like. And so she was saying how it's kind of an X where she's on one side of the scale and the other leaders on the other side of the scale. I'm like, well, that makes sense. But you have that, again, that language to be able to understand why you're doing that, because you're coming. You're more of an introvert. She's more of an extrovert. You know, like, whatever your. Your different patterns are, the way you're experiencing life, it's just.

Lisa Virtue [00:32:55]:

It's.

Angela Tait [00:32:56]:

It's all coming across. So having that understanding is so valuable.

Lisa Virtue [00:32:59]:

And it's easier to show up with empathy and also leverage those differences, too. Right. And have that diversity of thought and personality on your team, which is. Can be so beautiful when people acknowledge it.

Angela Tait [00:33:13]:

Yes.

Lisa Virtue [00:33:13]:

And embrace it. Yeah. Love it. Angela, thank you so much for your time today. I better wrap us up. I would love to hear what you tell people about your book. If you want to share a little bit more about, like, who should read your book, I feel like everyone could get value out of it. But what is your ideal audience and message there? And then also, how can people get a hold of you?

Angela Tait [00:33:37]:

Yeah, I mean, I would say my book is for leaders, business owners, hr. It really is helping you go through the process of why HR is beneficial. But not only that, but why people first Culture is the way to go, especially with AI on the scene. Putting your people first is what's going to keep your organization growing and thriving and retention high and your profit continuing to soar. So the book is kind of taking. It's like broken down into three sections with, like, the hiring piece and what that looks like on the candidate experience and then inspiring inspiring your employees to continuing to be engaged and productive. And then that retention piece of like how do you tie it all together and support that long term, that long term growth for everyone.

Lisa Virtue [00:34:38]:

Love it. Really the message too today I'm hearing loud and clear is leverage tools like AI to help the humans that work for you. Don't replace the human connection with it.

Angela Tait [00:34:50]:

Yes, yes, so true. Like there's so much that AI can do and support us on and I think that they're great tools and I'm excited for AI but also be mindful. I think that's the other thing it be AI has created some fear right of people losing their jobs and am I going to get replaced. And something I heard recently on a podcast is that Tony Robbins was mentioning is not only are people fearful of that but also looking at because our work is tied into sometimes our purpose, our meaning our identity is also taking those that time to like reevaluate who you are outside of your job and helping skill upskill people that are in your company for other opportunities that AI might be taking over certain jobs. Like you know, how can you skill people to recognize they're more than their job but like also have other areas in the business that they're able to support on that might not use AI. So yeah but people can find me also on LinkedIn I talk a lot as you mentioned the post I did the other day on the Instagram and understanding that awareness how it relates to leadership. So LinkedIn is a platform I'm on often and then also on Instagram. Tait Underscore Consulting is another place that I'm posting pretty often.

Lisa Virtue [00:36:19]:

Wonderful. We'll follow you at all the places.

Angela Tait [00:36:22]:

Thank you.

Lisa Virtue [00:36:23]:

Thank you so much Angela. I really appreciate it.

Angela Tait [00:36:26]:

Yes, thank you Lisa.