Lisa Virtue [00:00:00]:

Laura, thank you so much for being here for another robust conversation. I love having conversations with you. We've known each other a few years now, so here's another one. I'm so excited. Before we get going, why don't you just introduce yourself to the audience?

Laura Leach [00:00:15]:

Well, thank you so much. I am so excited to be here. Yes. I love talking with you and all things professional development in so many different ways. So my name is Laura Leach. I am a CEO and professional development career coach, Meredith Consulting, which is my own private practice. So I have two different hats I wear. I oscillate between my private practice where I focus on mature women in, in technology, but also just in the professional workplace and helping with their transitions.

Laura Leach [00:00:52]:

And then I also wear a hat where I focus on master in International affairs and Public policy for a school here in San Diego and focus on grad students and getting them off into the world. So have these two different hats that I like to wear, especially when it comes to like transforming leaders and some of the, some of the areas that I know we'll talk about today.

Lisa Virtue [00:01:18]:

Yeah. So you have such a similar background to me where you were leading teams, you grew your own career and then you pivoted into coaching and a lot of career transitional coaching. So talking really in depth with people of like, what did they like about that leadership role? What do they not want to go into in their next leadership role? So I think you and I have this beautiful place that we get to have those robust conversations with people about what works and what doesn't work in the workplace for leaders in particular.

Laura Leach [00:01:49]:

For sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think I have a handful of clients and friends who have stepped away mid career and said, I don't want to be in a leadership role anymore. I really want to just be an individual contributor. And that happens, I think more often than people realize.

Lisa Virtue [00:02:09]:

Yeah, there's obviously a lot broken, which is one of the reasons we're here to talk about what is broken and where can we fix it or move on or evolve the workplace. So that's my big hope for the next generations of leaders is let's keep evolving this thing that we call work because it is definitely broken.

Laura Leach [00:02:29]:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I find a lot of it is. It's so self driven. Right. Like we oftentimes in the workplace we don't have a lot of these tools where things are broken and we don't have a lot of tools or support or resources or finances, whatever the company that you're at may be. And at the end of the day you're driving your own career and then it's upon yourself to, you know, to take, to, to incorporate professional development, to take classes, to find a coach, to, to work with mentors, all the tools that you can put in your tool belt because more often than not a corporation isn't going to provide it. And I think that's kind of a misnomer as we are, are off into our careers and mid career we're realizing what we don't have. And I think that's when you know, we look back and all this is all broken and these systems are broken and it's true.

Laura Leach [00:03:28]:

But I think there's a lot that we can do individually along the way that can help shape, I guess not quite fix all the broken pieces, but at least, at least the ones that are in our path.

Lisa Virtue [00:03:42]:

Yeah, for sure. Taking control where you can. Right. And, and really designing your own career and all of that, which huge proponent of as well of course as a coach. So we're going to get into some specific topic around this concept and if people are listening then I know that they've got that same mindset of I do want to take control where I can and I want to work on this. I'm not going to blame everybody else for all my things. Even though there are parts and that I'm claiming are broken, there are things we can take control and I, you know, we also need to be accountable for our own actions. Which leads me into our theme today.

Lisa Virtue [00:04:18]:

So we're going to talk about acting intentionally and this is how do we show up for our team and for the organization we're working for. A lot of leaders are stuck. You know, everyone has a boss at some level. Right. Even if founders are listening, they've got stakeholders or investors or people they or clients, people that they have to kind of be accountable to and themselves. So when we talk about acting intentionally like taking action, we both have seen such a spectrum where there's the overthinkers that don't take action quick enough. You might overthink everything and then all the way over to. I see this a lot with founders and people that are like quick paced industries where it's like we've got to get going so let's just act even if we don't have all the data and the information and on both extremes of those spectrums it drives teams crazy.

Laura Leach [00:05:11]:

Right, right.

Lisa Virtue [00:05:12]:

Finding that balance. I would love to hear from your perspective as a coach and a leader yourself where you've seen this play out and the pain Points that leaders face when they're trying to decide how quick and how intentional to act.

Laura Leach [00:05:28]:

Yeah, that's great. Thank you. I immediately think of imperfect action is just still action.

Lisa Virtue [00:05:35]:

Right.

Laura Leach [00:05:36]:

And then what we hear a lot in startup environments is fail fast. Right? We get that and that, that mentality I think, you know, definitely drives behavior, but it could also, you know, really create an environment that's not tenable to be in. It's not sustainable even. And it can create, it's, it's such a great concept, the fail fast. Right. And especially in startup companies. But I think it's really important. I think you said like when to take action is so important and then how do you as a leader lead with that action? So from a.

Laura Leach [00:06:20]:

How do you communicate that action? Right. There's one thing to set those goals and come up with those priorities and then work toward, toward those priorities. Hope, hopefully not changing the goal like we're going to the goal no matter what, but also how we as leaders insert ourselves when we see problems arise because we might have, we might have had these experiences before and we want as leaders to let our population and people in our teams, you know, stumble of course, and learn. But how do we insert ourselves? That still drives behavior and still is also kind of driving toward that goal. And one of the things that I always think about and it will always come down to for me is communication and just kind of leading with that curiosity and like seeing something, saying something right to our team when it happens and then with that curiosity of how do we go and have these proper check ins so that we can make sure that we're still driving toward that same goal. So for me it's communication, it's, it's, it's goal setting, right. And it's taking a look at what are we driving toward and how are we getting there and then what your communication style is and cadences without being that micromanager and then with also still making sure that we're driving at the speed we need to drive to.

Lisa Virtue [00:07:50]:

Mm, yeah. There's so much power, isn't there, in just naming it and owning it. Like you mentioned at a tech startup and I've worked with these types of organizations where at least you go in knowing that it's been named like we are going to fail fast, we are going to move quickly. We. When even in recruitment they'll ask questions of like have you ever been in a startup environment? Do you understand the speed of this style that we're looking for? Because it's not for everyone. That's for sure. So first of all naming it and I've seen that that is the only sector and organization that I've besides some government entities that will kind of say the opposite about themselves. Although I think that's shifting in the current political climate.

Lisa Virtue [00:08:38]:

Government is also changing a bit with how their action is. But anything in between those two kind of extreme scenarios, I don't hear a lot of leaders even understand what they're cadence is and naming it for themselves. Right. So as you work with leaders, where do you see this? Do you have any examples or for yourself even of what you've experienced around like understanding what your default is as the leader and being able to kind of name that for your team? So they under, they have expectations, right?

Laura Leach [00:09:16]:

Sure. I mean I think that's, you know, where this like self development and self improvement comes in. Right. I think before you even step into a people manager role or a leadership role is understanding how you communicate and then also understanding how your team needs to, needs to be communicated to. Because we might have very different learners, very different listeners, very different participants or we have remote and disparate type of teams throughout, you know, globally even. And so understanding yourself and then also what your team needs is to me fundamental and I think that's kind of the foundational work of the communication and I think even more so and it doesn't always happen is hiring to that. Right. We, we also want to make sure that we're hiring people that understand we might be working in a fast paced environment or we might be not.

Laura Leach [00:10:16]:

Maybe we're in a different type of like a more of a waterfall type environment where things take time and pace and somebody coming from one environment to another like you said it is, I mean you, if you haven't worked in a startup environment, you don't know until you know. And once you're there it doesn't mean that you could do anything and work backwards because it's just as hard to unwind what those types of expectations are because everyone else is going to move slower. So that also becomes a pain point. What I've seen with my leaders where I feel like some of my leaders have had, have struggled in communication is when they've been part of a merger or they've inherited a team and if they've inherited a team, they've specifically inherited a team that was underperforming and they are in a place where they need to help get them performing or manage them out and they've come to me where they've asked just from an outsider, non biased perspective of how can I be the best leader and the best coach and the best mentor and also how can I make sure that I manage the right people out without it affecting the team and do that with grace. And I do find that that is where that action happens is taking their. Your own. What, what can you change about yourself and how that's affecting the teams and or team that you have either inherited or currently having. Because I think there's a lot of dynamics that happen at that level, especially when you're inheriting different teams and trying to either integrate them or make sure that all of the priorities are still being achieved and the goals are still being achieved and then how do we communicate that? So

Lisa Virtue [00:12:13]:

yeah, yeah, it sounds like we're uncovering kind of some layers of the onion, if you will, of considering before you act, figuring out what is, what is your personal default and comfort level with action. So there's different layers of acting and considerations. Right. Then what does the organization need?

Laura Leach [00:12:35]:

Yeah.

Lisa Virtue [00:12:36]:

Then was your team needed and what do your goals need? So all these different layers of needs and considerations for a leader and peeling that back and then figuring out how to align all of it. Yeah. When you're trying to move quickly and take action, that can be a lot of thought processing.

Laura Leach [00:12:56]:

Right? Yeah. I mean as with anything, I think, you know, being a strong leader is also being a strong program manager and is also being a strong communicator and is also be. You know, you're always wearing a lot of hats and you're always prioritizing which hat you need to have on and when you need to have it on. I think also about what your own, like we're going back to kind of what your own leadership style is and how can you lean into that in certain areas. You know, I'm more of an empathetic leader and you know, and I can, I can lean into that in some instances, but I also have very strong boundaries that have come with experience. So how do I manage both of those? Because they're completely opposite sometimes in feelings and thoughts and action. But I do believe that when we go back to kind of the action and I think about action from a leader, it's really, I guess is in the details, Right. That action is in that d.

Laura Leach [00:14:06]:

In the details and it is in all of those components and also how you deliver that message or the messages that need to be delivered in various ways.

Lisa Virtue [00:14:17]:

And I think it's important here to say you're not alone as a leader. It feels so lonely A lot of times, especially when you're feeling that pressure to take action. And this is also where the overthinkers, because of all those layers and different considerations and like you mentioned, maybe your default might be misaligned with what? Like if you are an empathetic leader and you're being told cut half your team now there's this polarization that is feeling very opposite and not like it's flowing well together. So figuring out how to go about that, you know, there's coaches like you and I, there are mentors often, not always, which is I think why the coaching industry has really taken off. There are AI tools, right. To have a little quick conversation to put all those considerations in and maybe uncover some of the chaos and figure out next steps. But I have found that that sometimes bogs people down even more when they're using those tools unless there's something just to unblock. Have you seen this with the use of AI?

Laura Leach [00:15:27]:

Yeah, yeah. And, and also I just, yes. And I just watched an episode of, of a, of a show where it kind of backfired in the communication about sharing communication and using it as a tool or a mentor. I, I do think you can, in a, in a pinch you can kind of quickly ask a question like what? Here's the situation. How should I go about handling it? I think that's great. Great. I think it's a great band aid and it can happen really quick long term solutions, right. Are more.

Laura Leach [00:15:59]:

Of course we're always going to go to our favorite books and authors or our favorite blogs or our favorite newsletters and of course the entire coaching community at large. But having that mentor and having an internal champion or somebody that you can go to very quickly, that understands your organization and that knows the nuances about the behaviors in the organization or different personalities that you're not going to get from AI and you're not and maybe not even a coach. Right. That also could be therapy. Right. Therapy always looks back and we always say coaching is forward progress. So it's got to be somewhere in the middle. But the quick fix for sure.

Laura Leach [00:16:38]:

I think you can, you know, technology can help you out, but the nuances within the organization, you know, how to navigate certain organizations, specifically in larger corporations, that can be very challenging. And also, yeah, it can be so challenging as we know. And even in startups, right. Like you're going to have all these different personalities that are trying to achieve a goal and because they have these expectations that they can move at this fail, fast pace. And, and so some of Those personalities are very aligned, you know, with, with, with imperfect action. Let's get this done. Because we're also driving to a number or shareholders or going out and raising money. I mean, we've got to do whatever, get there.

Laura Leach [00:17:25]:

And yeah, I think more important is from an action perspective is understanding your team and when to, when to take action. And the other piece I was thinking was having clear communication around what your, what you want action to look like. Right. When we think about what does action look like, oftentimes I think about how did I communicate it to the team, what did I tell them action look like, what am I committing myself to and what have I committed the team to as well? Yeah, I, I sometimes I think about bigger programs that I've, I have hosted or championed and I think about what are, how do we, how do we get to the end goal of success, what does success look like and how do we drive toward it? And then when I'm communicating, what does that action look like? What are we all communicating? What are we all taking, taking on and the pieces of that particular project or program. Yeah, yeah.

Lisa Virtue [00:18:37]:

I'd love to hone in a little bit more on this communication part because I've seen it time and time again and I experience this with my clients too and we're talking through a scenario or some pressure at work they're going through and trying to sift through on next steps and should they take action or not. So often when I was in the workplace, especially in mid management roles, you come out of a meeting with senior leader or someone that is driving a strategy and you think you have a lot of action to do. Right. We've seen this in research too, where a team will pivot completely to a new action item when it was never actually an action item. It was more of brainstorming or leader was just talking through a potential thing. But they didn't actually mean go and run with it. Have you seen this in your career as well? And what, what do you recommend for those leaders when they're in those meetings to understand what is an action item and what isn't?

Laura Leach [00:19:39]:

Yeah, that's great. You see it all the time. Right. Especially because you have like, like a lot of like hypos or high potential, high potential employees who, you know, just run at a different pace and are always wanting to do a great job. They're climbing the corporate ladder. They' know, they're like whatever it takes to get noticed. I'm always looking for extra things to do. So you see that a lot with Your hypo.

Laura Leach [00:20:04]:

I shouldn't say hypos, but hypertension, employees, all the slang. Yeah. You know, those tools that we have in place to.

Lisa Virtue [00:20:15]:

I don't know.

Laura Leach [00:20:15]:

I have such a project management mind where I think about bigger meetings and I think about all these action items, these brainstorms. Did we take time to make sure that everyone knew what we were all charged with before we walked out of the room? Right. We used to always use like, these are your marching orders. Do you really know what your marching orders are? And I think it's really important. So personally, what I find myself doing is making sure. Like, can I just take a minute to make sure we're aligned? I do that in bigger meetings. I do it in follow up. And I also, I, I.

Laura Leach [00:20:55]:

Yeah, I. I think I'm just. I use the word aligned a lot in my daily life, including with my clients. I just want to always make sure that I'm aligned. And here's what I'm committing to before I hang up this call. And I think it's very important to, like, incorporate in a habit. I was just on another call and I did say this is what I'm planning on doing. This, this, this, and this is that.

Laura Leach [00:21:18]:

Anything else am I missing? Before I hung up, I wrote it down and here I am on this call. So I know what my marching orders are that I need to go. That's something that I've incorporated in my own world, both personally, professionally. In all the hats that I wear is asking clarifying questions, making sure that there's alignment, you know, and oftentimes even, you know, saying it back. You know, we talk about this in interviewing often right before the end of the interview. Would it be okay if I summarize everything that I said and, you know, just to make sure that there's alignment? Because I want to make sure I understand what problems we're trying to solve. Super easy to say. And I think that that has been so ingrained in my interview training from a coach perspective.

Laura Leach [00:22:08]:

I have that as a leader in my life all the time. But I think it's important. Yeah.

Lisa Virtue [00:22:16]:

Love it. So you're honing in on really where to create clarity with all of the conversation and how to eliminate assumptions. And that is something especially on the overthink side of that pendulum swing that I see a lot. Overthinkers will make a lot of assumptions, right? Oh, I have to do this and this and this and this. Like. And have you talked to your leader about that? Have you talked to that senior leader about that? And shown them what is on their plate and had that conversation. So even after the fact, I love what you're saying, like how to summarize a call, how to get alignment. That's a great word to use.

Lisa Virtue [00:22:58]:

Making sure we're aligned on these action items. I'm going to commit to these things. Love all that. And a lot of times we leave a meeting and then later think about, oh wait, I didn't get that clarity, right? So going back and getting the clarity is so important at that step, isn't it?

Laura Leach [00:23:15]:

I do think so. And then we have tools, right? We have Zoom AI, we have Calendly AI, we have Phantom, a note taker. We have these tools that will summarize a conversation and make sure that there is priority where or at least those action items. It's a really great way and I don't want to like push out a whole bunch of technology, but you can connect some of your technology if you're all on the same platform where your Zoom AI or any of your AI tools from your video meetings can be summarized, can be put into like your clock world and that could also look at your calendar and put those projects on your calendar as hold spaces. So there's ways that you can incorporate technology that can be really helpful. I also, you know, I'm, I'm a handwritten binder, kind of a girl, old school. But it's really important for me to make sure that I have those action items. And I, and I think when we think about action and we're as a leader, we're making sure that all of our action items we have delegated properly with the, with not only your action, but is there an end goal? Was it time bound? How will I know? How am I going to measure success? Because ultimately as leaders it's up for.

Laura Leach [00:24:49]:

It's all on, right? It rolls back upward. And so how am I going to define success with that? Even action? How will I know if it's done? How will I know if it's done properly? And then what, you know, how do, how do I reincorporate that back in to the bigger plan Achievable, Actionable. I always. What is. I know there's smart goals, right? We have, we all know about those smart goals. But I think clear actionable steps is like the number one communication tool that any leader needs, even with themselves.

Lisa Virtue [00:25:27]:

Yeah, absolutely. You're so right. And why are we doing it? Like there are team members that will ask that a lot and then some teams that will just run, they don't know if it even leads into their KPIs. It might be the antithesis of KPI, but they didn't slow down. So this whole cadence piece is so important too. Right. And slowing down to speed up later, Taking that time for clarity, I think in no matter what we're doing in life and even job search, as you're transitioning, if you're like, okay, I'm not at the right organization, it's not aligned for me. I want to change finding that clarity before you go to the job market.

Lisa Virtue [00:26:07]:

So everywhere we look, clarity and communication tend to be the top of the list. So as we're talking about taking action, figuring out what is the right cadence, getting clear on that, are these action items aligned to our KPIs?

Laura Leach [00:26:22]:

Right.

Lisa Virtue [00:26:22]:

Does my leader know what I'm working on? Do my subordinates to my team members know what they need to be working on? And then of course, a lot of times what they're working on filters up to us and then we have to take make a decision on it.

Laura Leach [00:26:35]:

Yeah, right. And is, and I also think, is what I'm doing now just stuff or is it really going to help me move up? So if I'm in that position, I often looked at some of the work that I did in my past and thought, is this really going to help me get a promotion or am I just getting stuff done and checking a box today? So having that clarity, even of where do you want to go and is what, what you're working on going to help you get there? Or am I just doing some administrative work or operational work or getting somebody else's projects off their plate? Or is it really going to help me in my own path? And I don't think about climbing the corporate ladder anymore. Like you, I'm not in that world, but I do think about the work that I do outside of most of my jobs. I think, is this going to help me with any of them? Right. Is this going to help me in. Am I going to learn something? Am I going to have an experience? Maybe it's not going to help me, let's say, get the next client, but this is really going to. I'm going to learn so much. This is going to be really helpful for me.

Laura Leach [00:27:54]:

So I'm always looking about, looking at what is this experience and is it going to benefit me later? But in a corporate world, I always think about whose work am I doing and is it going to help me get to the next level? Because oftentimes we push the work that we don't want to do off our plate. And it doesn't necessarily mean that it's clearing space for more work. The work that you want to do.

Lisa Virtue [00:28:22]:

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And as we delegate those action items too, it's really important to think about am I empowering someone else and elevating them and their experience, which does reflect well on us as leaders as well and helps with succession planning and filling gaps or being we want to take a vacation, we need somebody to fill in. Like, are they capable now? Do they understand? So I think what you're talking about also is how we do that with other people on our team as well, because we're usually responsible for that delegation of tasks and action.

Laura Leach [00:28:58]:

Yeah, absolutely. I always like to and have on my teams is really give everyone on the team an opportunity to work on something different or to hone in on a skill set that they might not have and to pair them up well with somebody that might have a different skill set. So like right now I have a coordinator who is not surprisingly young and not great at social media, but pairing her up with somebody that is really strong in social media so that she would have an opportunity more to learn to push out what she might need to do for her job and then continue to build on it. But I think it's really important as leaders, when we think about action, like you said, what is our intention of. Of. Of how we delegate, but also what do we ask for? So kind of back up. Right. I think about we've cleared our plate, we've delegated properly.

Laura Leach [00:29:57]:

We've gotten all of our. Empowered our team to take on certain skill sets or certain projects that are going to expand their career or, you know, their tool belt. What. How do we go and ask to take on action in a different direction? And I think that's a very gray area that we don't talk about a lot in our own succession planning. Right. Our own individual development plans that we might have. And how do we go and get certain projects that we might want to start working on because we do want to empower ourselves to get into a different role and maybe we have to take action ourselves.

Lisa Virtue [00:30:45]:

Yeah, I love that. Going back to like taking control of our career path as well. So how do you recommend that a leader goes to their leader and has that conversation?

Laura Leach [00:30:57]:

Yeah, that's a great. So I've. So I will give a very great example. I have a client who is wanting to get to a VP role and is at a director level and is wanting to get to a VP role. And is interviewing with other VPs, other directors within the organization and some out external. Right. So external competition into getting this position and went to a mentor and, and said what's missing? Right. What are my skill gaps? What is my experience? What is missing for me to step into this VP role? What do I, what don't I have? Because I have blinders on and I only see that VP role and I don't know what I'm missing.

Laura Leach [00:31:52]:

So one of the things that I would recommend is going outside your normal sphere and having you know your own360 if you will but having somebody who can give you honest non biased feedback about a skill set that you may or may not have or an experience you just may not have had. So for example this person had never handled a blank million dollar P L. Right. Had really never run a business from an operational perspective and had all of the other components of the job. But that piece is so important that of course would, she wouldn't be a candidate for the role. I mean it just, she just wouldn't. So how do you go and get that right? How do you start working on that? How do you go and ask your boss like I want to start getting into this. This is a missing component.

Laura Leach [00:32:48]:

You know, maybe it's not my opportunity today, maybe it's coming up but I want to be ready for it. And so that's where identifying what might be missing from your experiences in your tool belt and then going and asking for it and it may be it's not your direct line of supervision and maybe it's throughout the organization. Obviously in a smaller organization, in a startup company it's going to be a little bit different. You're probably going to have an opportunity to work on pm Right?

Lisa Virtue [00:33:17]:

Opportunity to work on almost everything.

Laura Leach [00:33:19]:

Anything you want, it's yours, it's yours for the taking.

Lisa Virtue [00:33:22]:

Yeah.

Laura Leach [00:33:24]:

But I do find that the people who know us best are inside of our ecosystem and they can really give us that honest feedback of things that, that of areas of expertise or experience that might be missing. So we may have those gaps. So that's what I would say is start do a little research first on what's missing. Those people who are close to you are going to think you're amazing and you can do anything and that's great. But we really need those people who can be give us some honest feedback and probably some hard feedback to swallow of areas of opportunity. Right. It's a growth opportunity as I like to say. Right.

Laura Leach [00:34:06]:

What are those growth opportunities that I might need to get under my belt first before I go. And then it's, then it's the ask, you know, are you in a situation where, for example, might this particular client didn't get the job and wasn't given an opportunity to work on P and L, so she had to go find that at another company. Yeah. And it was glaring. All of a sudden it became very clear, crystal clear about where her, where her opportunities were within the organization. And that's when she made the decision to move on. Yeah.

Lisa Virtue [00:34:44]:

So she was able to act very intentionally in that very guard. Yeah. And the theme that we're uncovering today really is like, don't act alone. Get that feedback. Talk to other people. Get clarity. Make sure that the cadence aligns with everyone that you're working with, your team and those that you're working for and the organization and understanding that. Yes.

Lisa Virtue [00:35:12]:

It's all through communication, for sure.

Laura Leach [00:35:15]:

Yeah.

Lisa Virtue [00:35:15]:

And there's mentors, there's coaches, there's people that can help you parse through it all. I've seen so often too, that teams will work so hard on something and drive all these actions to hand it over to the leader who set a date. Something arbitrary, clearly. And then it never moved past them. So frustrating for the team. Why did we work so hard on that and why did we do so much work when you didn't even take action on it? So also being really intentional with if you are giving a deadline, how do not just being arbitrary. Oh, I see this so often. Well, when is our deadline? Right.

Lisa Virtue [00:35:58]:

The team's trying to get clarity. When's our deadline? When do you need this by people? Just kind of look at the calendar. Oh, how about two weeks? Does that sound good? You can get it done in two weeks, but they're not actually intentional about that's going to feed like you were saying as a project manager. That's going to feed into this next step and then that next step. And what does that board look like for timeline? Let's be a little more intentional about it. And sometimes when people do that, they realize like, oh, this isn't a priority right now. Actually, we need that next quarter. And then that frees people up, which is what's the biggest resource as a leader is the time of your team to work on what's really important.

Lisa Virtue [00:36:37]:

Right.

Laura Leach [00:36:38]:

100%. Yeah. I see. I, I Whenever anyone tells me like, oh, you can get it in whenever. I have no motivation to get it done anytime soon.

Lisa Virtue [00:36:52]:

Yeah, yeah.

Laura Leach [00:36:55]:

Comes it's not your pray. I hear that. And immediately it is Not a priority for you. It is not a priority for me because, you know, I'm going to be reactive to priorities. Right. And then I'm going to schedule accordingly. Yeah. So when I do hear.

Laura Leach [00:37:13]:

It's funny that you said that, because somebody just was like, well, I'll get to it when we get to it. And I was like, okay, great.

Lisa Virtue [00:37:18]:

And I don't need to do anything. Great.

Laura Leach [00:37:20]:

That's great. That. That's. That's. And that's okay too. Right. Like you said, it frees up time, it frees up resources, and it helps. Helps and, you know, and it helps your team, you know, move, pivot, move, move on.

Laura Leach [00:37:36]:

Right. This gets set aside. Let's not lose sight of it, but let's set it aside and move on to something else that has a bigger priority or that's going to have a bigger outcome and a bigger gain that we need to get done.

Lisa Virtue [00:37:48]:

Yeah. Yep. If you're just finding yourself trying to keep people busy, then it's clearly not

Laura Leach [00:37:53]:

acting with intention,

Lisa Virtue [00:37:56]:

just acting to do. Yeah, for sure.

Laura Leach [00:38:00]:

Yeah.

Lisa Virtue [00:38:01]:

All right. So we covered a lot of different topics. Even internal promotions, which. Oh, I was gonna say something about that. So the internal promotion side, people love to help, but being really intentional with your ask is also important, isn't it? Because I've had so many times as a leader, people be like, oh, can I do an informational interview? Or I wanna talk to you about where my gaps are. Where do you see growth for me, when it's that ambiguous versus, hey, I'm interested in going over here, or becoming a people leader, whatever that ask is for the feedback. Again with intention saying, where do you see my gaps? Or where is my growth? Opportunity to become a people leader. Now I have something to react to.

Lisa Virtue [00:38:46]:

Right. As a mentor, as a manager. So I just wanted to bring that up. That the way you described it was great because it was. Your client was very intentional with. I want to grow from director to VP in this path. What are. What am I missing?

Laura Leach [00:39:02]:

Yep.

Lisa Virtue [00:39:02]:

And so it's something that someone could actually give really specific feedback.

Laura Leach [00:39:07]:

Yeah, I think. Yeah. A hundred percent. I always. And I'm going to go back to. To career coaching the piece. Right. It's the informational interview and networking.

Laura Leach [00:39:17]:

Right. I need to get a job. What kind of job? I don't. I could really do a. That. Well, send me your resume.

Lisa Virtue [00:39:24]:

Nothing's gonna happen.

Laura Leach [00:39:27]:

Whatever becomes of that, whatever gets back to me.

Lisa Virtue [00:39:29]:

I'm like, what did you actually ask for?

Laura Leach [00:39:32]:

Right. But no one knows. Like, I really I want to help. So I always think. And I think this in the workplace. Right. Inherently, I'm gonna always believe this like the internal optimist that I am. Inherently, I think people want to help.

Lisa Virtue [00:39:46]:

Right.

Laura Leach [00:39:46]:

If we're not intentional about. Intentional about our ask. People don't know how to help, and. And they feel like, God, I really can't help that person. You know, I'm not. I haven't carved out enough time to help people. And I'm not a good person because I'm not helping people when really we're not intentional about the ask if we are very specific and say, I'm really looking for experience with P and L, and I'd love to learn at the very least about it before I take it on as part of my duties and responsibilities and ultimately take it over. What can I do to.

Laura Leach [00:40:22]:

To get myself involved? Very different than what are my. What are my gaps? What do you think's missing from my. My. My gap?

Lisa Virtue [00:40:30]:

Yeah, it's missing from my resume and a. Worms. Right.

Laura Leach [00:40:35]:

Do you know. You want to know all those things? No. No.

Lisa Virtue [00:40:37]:

Yeah.

Laura Leach [00:40:38]:

And I don't want everyone's opinion about it either.

Lisa Virtue [00:40:41]:

Right.

Laura Leach [00:40:41]:

I want to be really intentional. Yeah.

Lisa Virtue [00:40:46]:

Yeah. I had a new leader that had just stepped into the role that had come to me. I was a skip level above her. And she said, I just. I have some questions about budgeting. I know you're good at budgeting because you manage all the budgets. And at that point, it was like a $10 million portfolio that I was managing. She knew that.

Lisa Virtue [00:41:06]:

So she came to me, very specific person in the organization and with specific questions. So we had lunch, and she sat down with her new P and L. And she said, okay. And I said, well, tell me what you know already and where you're feeling like you're missing information. And so we went through, and I was able to give her really specific feedback. Now she is. She's grown a few different levels within leadership since then in the last few years. And I'm so proud of her because.

Lisa Virtue [00:41:32]:

Very intentional taking action. So acting and asking.

Laura Leach [00:41:38]:

Right. Are really important. I have another coachee friend of mine, and. And she said something about she brought her daughter to a leadership conference and had brought her over. It was a women's leadership conference, and it was like she'd brought her the second year and she was a little bit older. And she said, you know, I love looking through her eyes. Right. I love seeing what she's seen and watching what she's watching.

Laura Leach [00:42:03]:

And she said, it was so Cute. And it's just stuck in my head. She said, leadership is caught. It's not taught. I hope my daughter catches some of the leadership that she sees today and over the next few days. And I. It stuck with me because I think it's so true. Right.

Laura Leach [00:42:24]:

Leadership isn't caught. Like we. Yes, of course, we are around really good leaders. We want to emulate some of them. We learn certain behaviors. We learn to learn about action from some of our really good leaders and managers and supervisors, and we can teach certain pieces of leadership. Right. But, you know, we.

Laura Leach [00:42:48]:

We have to take what we learn. Right. We have to take the pieces that we learn that make us the leaders that we are. Again, like. Right. There's so many tools we can use. Yeah, but who do we see? And sometimes it isn't our direct line manager or direct supervisor or leader, sometimes that is other people within the organization or outside the organization and thinking about how do they act, how do they treat their team, how do they see their boss, how do they. How do they show up in the organization, how do people see them in the organization? I think those components also all fall around action.

Laura Leach [00:43:34]:

Right. And how we, as leaders take action. Yeah, I'll just.

Lisa Virtue [00:43:40]:

I love it. So the phrase was leadership is caught, not taught, not taught. Leadership is caught, not taught, Love it. It's so true. And this is why so many people come to me and go, oh, I just don't have a mentor where I'm at, or I want to figure out who to go to and where. Where to see those examples. Which is the reason we have this podcast, too, is to say, you're not alone. And by the way, there are stories and examples you can hear as well and kind of make your own.

Laura Leach [00:44:12]:

That's right. And so many books. And so, so many, so many books. So many books. So many books. So many books in the making of books.

Lisa Virtue [00:44:20]:

There is no end.

Laura Leach [00:44:21]:

Yes, there is no end. And podcast and. And mentor groups. You know, there's groups for every sector and every industry, and industry groups are really so helpful. Conferences is a great place to meet mentors and other leaders, even if they're, you know, across the country. You know, even if they're in another country. It's a great, great. I know people.

Laura Leach [00:44:49]:

Oh, I don't want to go to conferences. It's just so much social capital after. It is so worth it. It's so worth it to go to conferences, especially when you're building your network as a leader, specifically within industry. And if you're thinking about, when do I Get to be that vp? And how am I going to get there? And what does that road look like? For me, Industry folks are the way to really build a beautiful network that can help you become a better leader.

Lisa Virtue [00:45:23]:

I love it. Again, you're not alone. And this is also taking action on those bigger items, like, should we invest in this AI tool? Should we do these things? If you're the one making those decisions or proposing those solutions to an executive team or a board being able to cite, okay, this organization and this organization in my network are doing these things. Oh, the power I've seen in those boardrooms when you bring in examples of what else is going on in the marketplace. Oh, yeah, you can't even quantify that.

Laura Leach [00:45:54]:

Yeah, right. I mean, having that industry knowledge is, is, is. Yeah. I mean, it really can be paramount to your own success, but to your career in general.

Lisa Virtue [00:46:06]:

Yeah. And it really helps you make those decisions too. Do I take action now or maybe, oh, other people took action. It wasn't a good idea. I mean, it happens both ways too, doesn't it?

Laura Leach [00:46:15]:

Yeah. And so much professional development can happen within those organizations, within associations. And then, you know, we just, there's so many tools available. Right. I think again, it's going to go back to, it's really, it's really up to you because so many companies, especially startups and young companies, but even the bigger organizations, they don't have, you know, their learning and development team can only do so much if they have a learning and L and D team. Right. They can only do so much. But, but these, these are important.

Laura Leach [00:46:54]:

Like, this is the way we fill it. This is the way we, we continue to develop ourselves and take it upon ourselves to grow our own careers and grow ourselves. We have to hold ourselves accountable for our own growth because there's not a lot of organizations that have the resources and the capital to, to polish you up.

Lisa Virtue [00:47:18]:

Well. And people say all the time, why, oh, I can do that role, I can get promoted, I can do it, I can do it, I can do it. And I have no doubt that they can do it, especially if they want to do it. And why would an organization or a team invest in you if you're not investing in yourself?

Laura Leach [00:47:34]:

That's right.

Lisa Virtue [00:47:35]:

And people will look and see, well, what have you done to get ready for this role?

Laura Leach [00:47:39]:

That's right. Yeah. Because we haven't, we, we don't have that right. Most organizations don't. You know, we, you and I, as career coaches, we know where some of those bigger gaps are. And a Lot of those gaps are between individual contributor and people manager. A lot of that, a lot of coaching, executive coaching, professional development happens at director and above and doesn't happen, you know, at individual contributor to director. I mean, there's such a big gap there, which is where this comes in.

Laura Leach [00:48:15]:

Where podcasts like this comes in, books come in, associations come in. All the, all the tools that you'll have to like, put together yourself as you're growing your career. It's so important. But I do find working with grad students, they are under the impression that a lot of companies have these tools and resources available.

Lisa Virtue [00:48:41]:

Yeah. Myth bust.

Laura Leach [00:48:44]:

Sorry.

Lisa Virtue [00:48:47]:

Sorry. Great. When they do and take advantage, for sure. When they do intentionally.

Laura Leach [00:48:51]:

Right.

Lisa Virtue [00:48:52]:

Take it.

Laura Leach [00:48:52]:

Right.

Lisa Virtue [00:48:53]:

But yeah, your career is your own.

Laura Leach [00:48:56]:

Yeah. Yeah. You have to kind of take in upon yourself to make the best of it. Take the right. Take the right action. Take the right action with intention. But I think we talked at the beginning is, you know, it's all going to come down to curiosity. It's all going to come down to how.

Laura Leach [00:49:12]:

How do I want to be a good leader? What kind of leader do I want to show up? Like, how do I want to show up? How do I want to be? How do I want people to see me? What part of them do I want them to see? And then how am I going to grow to get there? Right.

Lisa Virtue [00:49:27]:

Absolutely. Curiosity, not assumptions.

Laura Leach [00:49:30]:

Yes.

Lisa Virtue [00:49:31]:

Get clear. Get clear. And don't do it alone.

Laura Leach [00:49:34]:

Yes. And don't do it alone.

Lisa Virtue [00:49:36]:

Yeah.

Laura Leach [00:49:36]:

Love it.

Lisa Virtue [00:49:37]:

Oh, thank you so much, Laura, for your time. Welcome conversation. I knew we wouldn't have enough time, but wrap us up.

Laura Leach [00:49:46]:

That's okay.

Lisa Virtue [00:49:47]:

We'll. We'll talk again.

Laura Leach [00:49:48]:

For sure.

Lisa Virtue [00:49:49]:

Yeah. Oh, yes, for sure. I really appreciate it. And you have a gift for the audience too. Do you want to talk about that really quick?

Laura Leach [00:49:55]:

Yeah. So I think you'll put it in your show notes, but I am going to give 25% off my coaching services to anyone that books a discovery call. The link will be in your show notes and if you just put the word heart in the notes in your calendar booking, I will know that you will have a. A discount for listening in, tuning in and hopefully like growing with us.

Lisa Virtue [00:50:27]:

Love it. Thank you so much for that. Such a great deal. Coaching is not always accessible to everyone, so that hopefully will help people make it more accessible.

Laura Leach [00:50:36]:

Love it. Well, thank you for everything today. It's been amazing as always. So much fun to talk to you, Lisa. I could do this over and over and over again. So hopefully I'll come back and talk about another. Another piece.

Lisa Virtue [00:50:51]:

Let's do it. We'll do it. Thank you so much, Laura.

Laura Leach [00:50:55]:

You're welcome.