Lisa Virtue [00:00:01]:

Haley, welcome. I am so thrilled that you're here. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:00:07]:

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Lisa Virtue [00:00:10]:

So let's just start with you telling the audience a bit about yourself and what you're doing now and why you're doing it.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:00:15]:

Sounds good. So I'm Hayley Fariolo. I am the lead coach and founder of Anchor and Crest Coaching and Consulting. I grew up in the corporate world, so 15 years at different companies like PepsiCo, Unilever, and most recently Amazon, where I was the head of the Carrier Performance Hub. And throughout those 15 years and even now as a business owner, the theme has been mentorship. So both being mentored and being a mentor, and that's what I built my business on. So now I'm a career and leadership coach and I just, I mentor people every day. It can be really life changing if you have the right people in your corner.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:00:53]:

And while I help people get to the next level, I feel like I'm really unlocking opportunities for their whole families. So it's so much bigger than just work. It's your life. So, yeah, that's what I do now.

Lisa Virtue [00:01:05]:

Oh, I love that. I can relate to everything you just said.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:01:08]:

Except we have a very background.

Lisa Virtue [00:01:11]:

Yeah, awesome. Well, speaking of mentorship, and I just love how you said also for the whole family. When I started coaching over five years ago, at this point when we're recording this, um, I thought my goal was to work directly with women. And I realized, you know, 50% of my clients ended up being men. And I realized they were such great men that need to be part of the conversation. And it was helping their wives, their partners, their sisters, their mothers. It was just fascinating to think like, oh, this ecosystem, for me personally, some coaches do decide to do kind of one gender or one lifestyle type. But yeah, that was my revelation.

Lisa Virtue [00:01:52]:

So I love how you said that. I can really relate.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:01:54]:

I totally agree. I think that when you can help, maybe it's the main provider of the family or even if it's a dual provider family, helping people get to that next financial level just opens up doors for everyone. It could be flexibility, it could be financial stability. Just opportunities and choices that you wouldn't make in. You weren't in that level making that money. So I agree, money doesn't buy you happiness, but it can give you some opportunities you wouldn't have otherwise.

Lisa Virtue [00:02:26]:

Yes, I love it. And today we're going to focus on the idea of mentorship. And as you call It a board of directors kind of around you. So I'm going to ask you more about what that means. And on this mentorship side, I've also heard a lot of people say like, oh, well, I want a female mentor. Right. Or male mentor. And kind of it's just like when you're going to pick a coach or a doctor, sometimes we do have an idea of a gender.

Lisa Virtue [00:02:51]:

So if you can weave that into your recommendations, would love to hear your thoughts on that.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:02:57]:

For sure. Absolutely.

Lisa Virtue [00:03:00]:

So board of directors, tell me what that means and what that looks like for someone.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:03:05]:

So I will open it up by saying mentors are great. Like in general have as many mentors as you can as long as it's an effective relationship. So it does take time to build those relationships. So the more isn't always the better. But making sure that you have plenty to go around is great. When we start talking about board of directors, though, that's being really intentional about who your mentors are. And in my opinion, in my experience, there are three that everyone should have. So.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:03:35]:

So that's your guide. Who. That's typically what you think of when you think of a mentor. That's someone that's kind of been there, done that. And I can see, you know, if I'm a mom, having a corporate mom be my mentor would be a great person to have because they could help me maybe even outside of that, just that corporate relationship. The second one is the sponsor. So that's your advocate. There may be a couple levels up, maybe just in a.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:04:00]:

They sit at a table that you don't currently sit at. Basically they're going to advocate on your behalf. That can be anyone. Like, I don't. I wouldn't limit yourself to a specific gender or whatever your preconceived notions are. I would absolutely be open minded as long as that person can help you get where you want. And then the last one is that outside challenger. So they have a completely different perspective.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:04:22]:

And so that's where I would challenge people. Again, be open to whoever this is. I think having someone with a very different perspective can shed light on things you wouldn't even consider and open opportunities for you that you don't even know exist. So that is the board of directors that I coach people on and always talk about.

Lisa Virtue [00:04:41]:

Love that. Okay, so we have sponsor, we have a guide. What was the third one?

Haley Ferraiolo [00:04:47]:

The outside challenger.

Lisa Virtue [00:04:48]:

And the outside challenger. I love that one too. Which we find a lot of challengers, don't we?

Haley Ferraiolo [00:04:53]:

Right. And as coaches, that's often what we are to our clients because we're not working at that company that they're at, but we can offer that bigger picture perspective. So when something goes wrong at work, it's not the end of your life. It's gonna be okay. We can offer that assurance.

Lisa Virtue [00:05:10]:

Right. And in such a kind way. Right. Where people want feedback, but sometimes maybe the person giving it is not the right person for it to land correctly.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:05:18]:

Right.

Lisa Virtue [00:05:19]:

Right. Love it. So as far as how to find people in these three different roles for your board of directors, what does that look like when someone's like, okay, I'm going to go build my board of directors, Do I have them already? What do you recommend?

Haley Ferraiolo [00:05:35]:

So many times they already exist in your life. They're people you know. And as your life and your career evolves, that board of directors is going to change with it. So for the guide, they're typically the ones that are kind of right in front of your face, like they've maybe done the role you've done, maybe been at the same company and progressed in a similar way. You want to keep your eyes open for those people that you really respect that have done what you're doing for the sponsor. I think this is probably the hardest one to find. And a lot of times it can come from a connection that you already have at work where they, like, let's say your manager can advocate on your behalf to this person and ask them to be your sponsor. It can be someone that you've built a relationship with in previous roles or at previous companies that have excelled and again, can speak positively on your behalf.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:06:29]:

So keep your eyes open. But also making that connection through someone else is great. And that outside challenger, they're everywhere. They're all over the place. You can have so many of these. Again, they're probably already a part of your life. And someone that you respect, someone that does something different, someone that has that strong big picture of you and is also encouraging but challenging at the same time. But they're out there.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:06:58]:

You just, you have to ask. And that's one thing I always tell people, being a mentor yourself and understanding the honor it is when someone asks you to be that mentor for them or will make it easier for you to ask someone else to be your mentor. Because it is truly an honor.

Lisa Virtue [00:07:12]:

Absolutely. Because I love that you brought up being a mentor, because we're also, you know, this podcast is for leaders, and so leaders need mentors for sure. Especially if you're trying to up level skill up or, you know, cross functional. And if you're trying to change careers. Like, that's a big one. To try and find somebody. Yeah. But I'd love for you to talk about being a mentor.

Lisa Virtue [00:07:39]:

And I can't remember what the movie was. There was a movie recently I was watching. If I remember it, I'll say it. But there was someone that. Oh, no, it was the show Matlock. The new Matlock with Kathy Bates. Okay.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:07:52]:

Yes.

Lisa Virtue [00:07:54]:

The new show Matlock with Kathy Bates. There was a young lawyer that was looking to the main lawyer in the movie, and she was like, will you be my mentor? She was so intense. And the lawyer's like, I didn't want to do it. And it was.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:08:09]:

I have to.

Lisa Virtue [00:08:10]:

Yeah, exactly. She ends up mentoring her. But the way that that interaction and that relationship went was basically outwardly expressing what a lot of people have as far as internal feelings. Right. But of course, it's dramatized for this show, so we don't see it a lot. So when you're looking to be a mentor and someone does approach you or you see someone that could use your mentorship, what do you recommend in those situations?

Haley Ferraiolo [00:08:39]:

Absolutely. I think you really need to be goal oriented with your mentees. A lot of people in my experience think having a mentor is a great idea, but if you show up unprepared, you don't have your questions or your topics ready to discuss with your mentor, you just wasted an hour, and no one wants that. So as a mentor, being really clear about the expectations, and I always build this into the mentoring programs that I build. But you need to be clear that the mentee owns this relationship. Like, you need to come prepared and then setting really clear goals up front, which is a great leadership opportunity for the mentor as well. Because you know when you're talking about getting promoted or being seen as a leader, you need to be able to show how you're able to develop others. So having some clear goals that you can measure associated with that relationship, obviously be human at the same time.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:09:33]:

Like, it's not all about driving numbers, but if you have some numbers to speak to and some goals that you accomplished with them, huge win. And I think it also quickly weeds out those relationships that just. They're not going to work. And that happens. Not all mentoring relationships are meant to live on forever.

Lisa Virtue [00:09:51]:

Yeah, for sure. Sometimes it's kind of transactional or situational, isn't it?

Haley Ferraiolo [00:09:55]:

Right. Yeah.

Lisa Virtue [00:09:56]:

I have seen this play out so many times where a mentor shows up. A mentee doesn't know how to be a mentee, and the mentor isn't realizing that part of the mentorship is like, you got to teach them how to be a mentee. Right. They show up and there's this disconnect. And the mentor's like, hi, what would you like to talk about? And the mentee's like, oh, I thought you were going to tell me, like, and they both kind of just, you know, talk small talk or talk shop, but there's not much substance that comes out of it. And I don't know about your experience or if you have stories around this, but that's where I've seen mentorships just kind of fade away or die. Right. Because there's no clarity.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:10:31]:

Right.

Lisa Virtue [00:10:32]:

And there's no, like, guidance on how to be a mentee and how to own that relationship in those conversations.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:10:39]:

Right. And I think that's where setting those expectations upfront is so important in every aspect of being a leader, but especially it being a mentor. You can't expect someone to read your mind or know what this relationship is supposed to look like. Look like if you don't put it all out on the table and if they're not ready for that level of relationship because it. It's a lot of work, then that's fine. This just isn't going to work out for us. This isn't meant to be. But so many people, to your point, don't know what it takes to be in a mentoring relationship and actually get something out of it.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:11:16]:

Putting it out on the table, coming to agreements, deciding on your goals and agreeing to them together is the most important part of starting that relationship. I will say some, especially with sponsors. It can be much more casual too, though. You start building these relationships, maybe you have 15 minute coffee chats every other month, like little bits of time, making sure you're clear on what you need out of that relationship up front is going to be very important as the mentee. So maybe you're working towards a promotion and you need this person to be able to reiterate and advocate for you in that promotion room. Maybe you come out and say that, like, I'm looking to get to the next level. I would love your feedback and your advice to help me lead at that level. But also I would love to you, just love for you to speak on my behalf and I'm going to give you all of the information that you need to be able to do that.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:12:09]:

It's very direct. It will not work with all people, but it. It absolutely can be a very powerful relationship when you use it the right way for sure.

Lisa Virtue [00:12:18]:

Oh, so uncomfortable for so many people, isn't it?

Haley Ferraiolo [00:12:20]:

So uncomfortable.

Lisa Virtue [00:12:21]:

Just like negotiating your salary and everything. It's hard to say it out loud.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:12:27]:

So crucial, though.

Lisa Virtue [00:12:29]:

Yep. Put your intention out there. Yep. For sure. Worst cases, they'll be like, you know, I'm not comfortable with that. And then you go, okay, thanks for thinking about it.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:12:37]:

Right. And I think the other piece, too is like, maybe you're not ready for that promotion. And that's. Or this person doesn't see you as ready for this promotion. Great. What's the gap? How do I get there? Can you kind of coach me to lead at that level? So then when you get there, this person is a hundred percent comfortable speaking to your accomplishments, your impact, your leadership.

Lisa Virtue [00:13:00]:

I'll just add one thing that I've also seen, where a lot of times people start these conversations in these relationships and the leader they're speaking with doesn't actually know the accomplishments the mentee has done. Right. People assume, because it's all, we're in our own bubble. The world is our oyster. We all assume. Everyone sees all the good things we do. But lots of times, I mean, everyone's doing that. So again, to break through that bubble, like being able to say, hey, this week I'm.

Lisa Virtue [00:13:30]:

I wanted to share something I'm proud of with you. Right. Or here's something that I've done, or here's why I'm interested in. I think I'm ready for this role. Like, again, not saying, do you think I'm ready?

Haley Ferraiolo [00:13:41]:

Right.

Lisa Virtue [00:13:41]:

Putting all that pressure on them.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:13:43]:

You need to think you're ready before anyone else thinks you're ready.

Lisa Virtue [00:13:47]:

Yeah. And you should have some data to back it up Again, I'm sure you do, but how do you articulate that? How do you say it for those mentor relationships? Right.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:13:55]:

Absolutely. I think, to your point, straightforward. You know, I'm really proud of this. This just happened, especially if you're leading a team or driving results through others. I love to brag on others, especially if it was through my leadership. So you can also frame it up as asking for advice. I was able to do X, Y and Z and accomplish this, but how would you have done that differently or better? So you're. You're still sharing what you did, but also getting advice on top of it, which is a win.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:14:24]:

Win. But yeah, I mean, I think those are the two big ways I would look at it. You want to make sure that you give them information that they can regurgitate. You don't want to start rattling off all the actions and the stories behind what you did. You want to say what you did, how you did it and what the ultimate impact of that was so that they can speak to that. Yeah.

Lisa Virtue [00:14:50]:

Those quick hitting stories don't inundate them with the details. Yes. And ramble on and on. Yep. I also see a lot of times when people get the ear of someone who's typically the ones that sign up to be mentors and agree to the time. They're very giving and they have the heart in it. Right. And so a lot of times that is such a magnet to complaining about what's going on.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:15:15]:

Yeah.

Lisa Virtue [00:15:17]:

Oh, I have someone I can vent to that understands and then a few months later, promotional opportunity comes up. Do you think that person's going to advocate for you?

Haley Ferraiolo [00:15:25]:

You just complained for months, you can't handle what you're. This sounds harsh, but if you can't handle what you're doing now, what makes you think you can lead at that next level? Absolutely. I think especially with that sponsor advocate type mentor, you need to be very careful about what you say. If you have a complaint, one, they're not the right person to hear it, but two, you better back it up with a solution or a recommendation on how to solve it. Right. Yeah. I think the guide would be one. And again, I don't think you should complain, I don't think you should vent.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:16:01]:

I think you have your friends for that that don't work at your company. But that guide will understand the challenges that you go, that you're going through or have gone through and can offer you some really kind of detailed advice and step by step, how to fix a situation because they've gone through it. So that could potentially be a person to have those conversations with. But it needs to be framed up as you're asking for advice and you're not just letting it all out. Yes.

Lisa Virtue [00:16:29]:

Also coaches, because friends sometimes get sick of hearing the complaint.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:16:32]:

Very true. That's what we get paid to do. Yeah. We're here,

Lisa Virtue [00:16:37]:

we'll sit with you, we'll let you vent it out and then we'll come up with a plan of how to communicate best.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:16:42]:

Right, Right.

Lisa Virtue [00:16:44]:

So for when someone, let's say it's the guide conversation. So we've got a leader who's like struggling with a challenge coming and saying, like, here's a challenge I. I'm having. Here's some solutions I've come up with. Like you asked. I love how you put that earlier. What would you do differently? What, what have you done in the Past. Right.

Lisa Virtue [00:17:05]:

So that's a really specific way to get someone's help to react. Right.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:17:10]:

Right. I would even make sure you bring. Here's what I've tried already.

Lisa Virtue [00:17:14]:

Yeah, Yeah.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:17:16]:

A lot of times people are not. If you haven't tried to solve it yet, like, well, what do you think is the right way to solve this? Go try that. But yeah, I think, you know, bringing solutions as well as what you've already done and maybe why or why not? It worked. It's huge. And they can help guide you to finding what will work or what worked for them.

Lisa Virtue [00:17:40]:

Right.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:17:41]:

Yeah.

Lisa Virtue [00:17:41]:

I could see where sometimes though, people maybe they don't want to try it yet because it's such high stakes. Right. And so they're like, I really want to get your opinion on this before I try anything. But to your point, like, don't bring the little frivolous things that you should have already. Like, low stakes, you know, that you should have already.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:17:59]:

You know, those kind of. The way I think about it is like the people conflict. You can have tough players that you're dealing with. Like, I'm sure we both had that throughout our careers.

Lisa Virtue [00:18:08]:

Yeah.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:18:08]:

And asking for advice on how to best deal with those people. Fair, fair territory. Great. Ask that advice. But having examples and what you've tried already, I think it will be pivotal because if you just come complaining about someone else, that can quickly raise questions about you.

Lisa Virtue [00:18:26]:

Yeah. Oh, I've definitely done that. Where I was like, okay, I have this team member. And then it just kept coming up and I was like, why do I keep telling this person about this team? Stop. I just need it.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:18:37]:

It's not there for sure. Yeah, I've done the same.

Lisa Virtue [00:18:41]:

You have learned the hard way. Yeah.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:18:43]:

Oh, yeah.

Lisa Virtue [00:18:44]:

I love it.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:18:44]:

Well, why.

Lisa Virtue [00:18:45]:

Let's segue into that. I know you brought a story or two to share with this mentorship concept. So what would you like to share today?

Haley Ferraiolo [00:18:53]:

Yeah, I think, you know, the biggest thing I want people to understand is that having the right mentors can really change your life. And I can give you a story about myself where, I mean, it really made a difference. So when I first started at Unilever, brand new. Within six months, I'm in Arkansas, you know, visiting Walmart. I was supporting them as a customer, and all of a sudden there's like this tornado happening. We're in the hallways and my skip level director calls me to tell me my role has been eliminated. Six months in. So in a tornado, like, what a metaphor for my life right now.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:19:34]:

Like, oh, I'M gonna lose everything I worked for. Great. So kind of taking a step back, he actually was calling to give me a heads up. And it wasn't, you know, you're done giving your badge. It was, I'm going to make sure you come out of this okay. And he actually gave me three options to choose from, all in better positions. And he. He truly was my sponsor.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:19:58]:

He was sitting at the table saying, you know, here are the people whose jobs are being eliminated. We are taking care of her. She will have one of these jobs. And talk about life changing. That was when I started my first role in transportation, which was the theme throughout the rest of my career. I left as the head of carrier performance at Amazon. So it set my life and my career on a very different trajectory. Whereas, unfortunately, many of my peers were laid off in that moment, um, which is very common at these big companies now, which is so unfortunate.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:20:34]:

But it really proved to me having the right people advocate for you can make all the difference.

Lisa Virtue [00:20:42]:

What would you say? I love this story. And I now I'm curious, what contributed to, like, how did that relationship begin? How did it get to that point where he was your sponsor?

Haley Ferraiolo [00:20:54]:

So when I was in college, he hired me to be an intern at one of his factories. And so that's when I first met him. And I actually didn't even end up going to Unilever after college. I went to PepsiCo, and he helped me come back into Unilever years later. So he was someone that I always stayed close with. I built that kind of foundational relationship with him. But then I wanted to be successful at Unilever. Like, Unilever was my dream company.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:21:23]:

I'm going to kill it here. So I would meet with him regularly to say, here's what I'm doing, here's what I'm working on. How do I bring this to the next level? So he knew everything that I was doing. He already knew the impact that I was making, even at my previous company. So because he helped hire me, so it was easy for him to say, oh, no, she can go drive the business in this way. Put her in these roles. These roles would be great fits for her. And, I mean, that's why I'm here now.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:21:57]:

I'm able to be that mentor to other people because I had such great examples for mentors in my life.

Lisa Virtue [00:22:06]:

Amazing. So we talk to people so much. I know you work with people, too, in career transition and trying to get that next role and how to really optimize their chances to be the Top candidate. These relationships, people just, oh, I haven't talked to them in years. They were great. Like, why haven't you talked to them? So it sounds like you kept in touch too. And you were. Yeah, you maintained that relationship, which turned out to really help you out too, in your career.

Lisa Virtue [00:22:37]:

And you helped him out because you're a great candidate.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:22:40]:

It's a two way street. I mean, and I'm even thinking about the people I hired, who I advocated for for later on. I mean, it's such a two way street.

Lisa Virtue [00:22:49]:

So, yeah, for sure. I love it when I hear from people that I've worked with, worked for, used to work for me, and when they just update me versus there's those people that every couple years, hey, I'm going for this job, can you do a referral for me?

Haley Ferraiolo [00:23:08]:

No. Yeah, right. You have to be intentional. Yeah.

Lisa Virtue [00:23:11]:

I need to know what you're up to. I need to know, right? I don't know.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:23:14]:

Why would I advocate for you? And I think part of it is building true, genuine relationships where you do want to just have that 15 minute coffee chat to see how they're doing with no other motive and identifying those people in your life. And I'm not saying you should use people in any way for their positioning or how they can help you, but identifying the people in your life that you respect, that you want to build that relationship with that make you better. I mean, why would you not want to meet with them at least once a year, text them, how are you doing? So identifying who they are before you need them and building that relationship ahead of time, I mean, that's so key to finding a job or being successful in any way.

Lisa Virtue [00:24:03]:

Yes. And then having these mentors, like you said, sometimes they're temporary, but then you never know. They could eventually unblock something or they meet someone in their life and they're like, oh, I need to connect you two because I know this person's now doing this thing. Yeah.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:24:19]:

I mean, that is the job market now. Right. Like, so is your resume has to be perfect. But if you don't have someone that gets your resume to the right people, it will never be seen. So it's crazy how important that is, those relationships. Yeah.

Lisa Virtue [00:24:36]:

It's interesting because we've come full circle. Before there was online applications, it was so much about networking and knowing where the jobs are and how to get in with for an interview. Built up all this technology and now it's so saturated that we're back to, you need to know the people that

Haley Ferraiolo [00:24:55]:

are involved it's so funny. It's like you need to go door to door again. Yeah. You will stand out.

Lisa Virtue [00:25:02]:

Yes.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:25:02]:

So, yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I always joke around like tech broke the hiring process just because it's so easy. There's thousands of people applying to every job out there that may or may not be qualified. So if you don't stand out, the best way to do that is through a referral or, you know, someone advocating for you. You will never be seen.

Lisa Virtue [00:25:24]:

Oh, so true. So that board of directors as mentors.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:25:29]:

Yes.

Lisa Virtue [00:25:29]:

Helps so much. And I would say that is two way as well. Where I've also seen great mentorship relationships even in my own life, where the person that used to be the mentee knows of a job opportunity and then they call their mentor and they're like, you should come do this. Or I saw this, my colleague knows about this role would be perfect for you. So again, it's not always one sided of who's giving who the opportunity.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:25:54]:

I totally agree. And as careers evolve, they move at different paces and that's okay. So the mentee can become the mentor at any point. And that's so important. And the other cool thing about having a mentor that works somewhere else and wants to pull you or a mentee that works somewhere else that wants to pull you into it, is you get the inside scoop that you're not going to see on the job listing or you're not going to hear it in the interviews, but you can really understand what that job, that culture, that company is really like. And that's where like an outside challenger is a great mentor to have a little bit of a different perspective.

Lisa Virtue [00:26:31]:

So 100%. Okay. So that first conversation, when a mentee comes to a mentor they've agreed to meet, maybe they haven't even agreed on the mentorship formally. And sometimes that never happens. Right. We just don't, we don't name it. I think naming it's great, but sometimes it's just, hey, I want to do an informational interview with you or I really respect what you're doing. I love that project that you worked on.

Lisa Virtue [00:26:55]:

Could I pick your brain about some whatever. However you enter in and you get this conversation, what is your advice on both sides of like, how does that sound? A perfect scenario which never goes perfect, but we're going to let people know. What would ideal sound like?

Haley Ferraiolo [00:27:11]:

Ideal sounds like agreement and alignment. So there's a level of directness that that mentee needs to bring. So here's my ultimate goal. Maybe that's getting promoted, maybe that's pivoting to a totally different part of the business. But being really clear on what you need to get out of this relationship. And you can say it the right way with still building connection and relationship. Not just I need you for this one thing, but you need to be clear and then aligning on what those steps are that you'll take together to get there. So those that, to me, is the crucial part of building that relationship.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:27:54]:

A formal mentoring relationship.

Lisa Virtue [00:27:56]:

Love it.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:27:57]:

How much?

Lisa Virtue [00:27:58]:

Like, personal conversation, small talk. What is that? What does that sound like? Let's say from a mentee who's coming in super nervous, they're wanting to get to know this person. Where does it veer on? Too much small talk, not getting to the point, or enough to really start a relationship.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:28:19]:

Right, right. So that will absolutely vary between people. And again, I think that's something good to align on. One thing I do with my clients before we even start coaching is what are your preferences? Like, what are topics that we will not touch? Because everyone has points where it's like, no. Like, we're not opening that box of that Pandora's box right now. I think it is the mentor's job to make the mentee feel somewhat comfortable. You still have to challenge them and have tough conversations, but especially if it's someone coming to you who respects you and would love your advice, you need to have some empathy when you're having these conversations and put yourself in their shoes and not just be too direct that they walk away crying. Because I've seen mentoring relationships where the mentee almost feels a little bit beat down in the wrong situation.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:29:12]:

So I do feel strongly that the mentor needs to understand, kind of. It's eq. You need to understand what that person needs and how to interact with them the best way possible, and then be empathetic to their situation and your conversations.

Lisa Virtue [00:29:32]:

I love it. Hold on one second. My daughter started something that's noisy.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:29:36]:

Sure.

Lisa Virtue [00:29:39]:

Awesome, Haley. So on the mentor side, what advice do you have to be a really good mentor?

Haley Ferraiolo [00:29:44]:

Yeah, I think, again, like, that empathy is huge. But the three things I always tell people, especially in the programs that I've built, is around one, listening to understand, not listening to respond. You really want to understand what this person's going through and what they need versus just finishing their sentences for them and offering advice right off the bat. Along with that, number two is really asking questions. You can steer someone in a direction through questions versus just telling them again, what your advice is or what they need. To do. And by asking questions, they will remember it and be much more likely to act on wherever you're steering them. And then the last one is, if you truly believe in this person, be their advocate.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:30:33]:

Be their voice when they don't have one. And on the flip side of that, if you don't believe in this person as a mentor, it's your responsibility to coach them, hopefully to a level where you do start to believe in them. But just because you don't believe in them today doesn't mean, you know, you never advocate for them. And you. You kind of shut the door on that. It means you now have the responsibility to help them lead at that next level, for sure.

Lisa Virtue [00:30:57]:

And maybe your mentorship will be a key to blocking them on some things. Yeah, no question.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:31:03]:

Best feeling when you see someone else get to that next level that you've been coaching. I'm like, oh, I just got promoted. Like, it is the best feeling ever.

Lisa Virtue [00:31:14]:

Oh, as you said that, I thought of, like, five different people in my background just so proud of. And, yeah, love it. As we start to wrap up, I'm also thinking on, when there's not a formal mentorship program at your organization and you're in a leadership role and you want to mentor others, how do you know someone's ready for it? Because there are times we want to be a mentor to someone else, and they might not be ready or not want us. Right. How do you know?

Haley Ferraiolo [00:31:45]:

Yeah, that's a tough one. Because the potential you see in someone is based off of what you. Your goals and what you deem is necessary to be successful, not necessarily what they want or the direction that they're moving. So I think being really transparent about that is huge. But, you know, identifying those people that want to improve is huge. It's not the high. It's not always the high performer. It's not always the person that's doing the best.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:32:12]:

It's the person that asks the questions, that truly takes the time to listen and understand and is willing to build those relationships. So I think when you focus on that, you will find the people that you can really help.

Lisa Virtue [00:32:26]:

Love it. Yep. Don't force it, right?

Haley Ferraiolo [00:32:29]:

No. No. And it's okay to end a mentoring relationship at any point. I think people really struggle with that because you don't want to let someone down or make them feel any sort of way. But at the same time, you need to be transparent whether or not anyone's getting anywhere in this relationship. So if it's not working, end it.

Lisa Virtue [00:32:51]:

Yeah. Yeah. How does that sound. How do you end a relationship?

Haley Ferraiolo [00:32:54]:

Yeah, I think it's really respectful. It's, you know, thank you from the mentee perspective. You know, loved our time together. Thank you so much. I've learned and grown, and here are some takeaways that I've had. You know, maybe it's decreasing the frequency or, you know, I'll reach out to you when I need additional advice, but for now, I'm going to take the advice you've given me and continue on this path. But I think being. Showing gratitude is so important.

Lisa Virtue [00:33:24]:

Absolutely.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:33:25]:

Yep.

Lisa Virtue [00:33:26]:

Okay, we're going to wrap up now. This is a great conversation. Any final words of advice or anything you want the audience to know?

Haley Ferraiolo [00:33:36]:

Regardless of whether or not your company has a formalized mentoring program, it is your responsibility, and it will benefit you tenfold to build your board of directors. I truly, truly believe that that can change your life and give you access to opportunities that you would not have had otherwise. So do it. It's so important. I truly believe that.

Lisa Virtue [00:34:01]:

I love it. Do it tomorrow. Go find somebody. Yeah. Well, Haley, how can people get a hold of you?

Haley Ferraiolo [00:34:07]:

Absolutely. So you. I have my website, anchoringcrest.com I also actually have a mentoring guide that I give out, so you can find that on my Instagram, which is anchor and crest, or just shoot me an email. HF anchorcrest.com and I would love to connect, help you think through your board of directors, and also share my guide. So you can walk away with this knowing you have a really strong foundation.

Lisa Virtue [00:34:33]:

Yeah. We'll put it in the show notes. We'll have it so that you can just email us directly, and we'll make sure that everybody gets that.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:34:40]:

Awesome. Thank you for having me. This was amazing.

Lisa Virtue [00:34:43]:

Thank you so much, Hayley, for being here. I appreciate you so much.

Haley Ferraiolo [00:34:47]:

You're the best.